Nurses Who Earn Like Physicians Almost
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Labels: CRNA, Nurse Anesthetist
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posted by Digitaldoc, MD at 7:39 PM
This blog also attempts to compile MD Careers, Work Hours & Lifestyle issues : Updated: 29th Nov 2009
Comments on "Nurses Who Earn Like Physicians Almost"
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Post Your Comment !nurse anesthesists are nurses. anesthesiologists are physicians. 6 vs 13 years. would you prefer a good nurse anesthesist or a good anesthesiologist. if nurse anesthesists think their almost doctors then maybe they should be under the healing arts jurisdiction and not nursing state boards. you do the SIMPLE math.
And where would you place AAs in this hierarchy of school and knowledge?
If you think a MD is better than a CRNA your probably right. But they are the ones that leave when the job is done. they are the ones making great money for the amount of time they spend in school. They are the ones that will get hired because the are cheaper to keep. Redo the math!
If doctors would go where they were truly needed instead of just chasing the money there would be less need for nurses and physician assistants to provide the SAME service with the SAME outcomes for LESS compensation. I'm really getting sick of insecure physicians and ill-informed/biased med students and patients knocking the expert care that many nurses dedicate their lives to giving them!! Just because your're not the captain of the ship doesn't mean that same ship can sail without you being there to help it reach the right port. Medicine is a TEAM concept. Get used to it and GET OVER IT!!!
You are an idiot. A nurse anesthetist needs to have a 4 year BSN degree with a 3.5 GPA in nursing math and chemisrty classes, along with at least a year of critical care nursing experience in an ICU or ER environment and have experience with central,arterial and swan ganz lines (most have many more years of practice)Then the anesthesia portion takes at least 2.5 years of full time classes and clinical work. When they are finished most have >700 cases under their belt which is more than i can say for most physician practices. I would know because i am an ER nurse of 20 years who is considering CRNA school. I work with ER residents and have worked with medical residents my entire nursing career and any one who thinks that just because a physician has a couple nore years of training is better than a nurse has no knowledge whatsoever. I have worked with both and there is no difference in practice.
Again, where would you place AAs in this hierarchy of school and knowledge?
at UMKC school of medicine,the whole thing is 10 years;while the wholenprocess for nurse anesthetists is at least 7 years.!Nurse anesthetists work twicw a shard and are twice as caring for their patients.Envy?
What are you saying exactly? A Nurse of 20 years has more knowledge than a physician recently out of training? Just taking emergency medicine as an example given your history as an RN in the ED and my history as an ED attending for several years I can tell you that you are way off base. The educational process for nurses and physicians are much different and frankly the route to become a physician is much more demanding...scholastically, mentally and physically! My wife was a CCU RN turned MDA and she laughed at your statement! I have never seen a nurse working in the CCU/ICU float a swan or place a central line prior to their anesthesia training! I don't know where you work as an RN but that falls well outside your scope of practice. Yes, a CRNA can do it but an RN in the ED or on the floor would shit their pants if they had to. When does a CRNA have more cases following completion of their training than an MD anesthesiologist after finishing their residency? Are you telling me that in 2.5 years of both classroom time, didactics, and OR time that the average CRNA has logged more cases than an anesthesiology resident in their CA1-3 years after internship? Do you honestly feel that your years as an RN, gives you the knowledge base and understanding of anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology to that of a physician? I was a medical school while my wife was in nursing school and can tell you that your anatomy and physiology classes are elementary in comparison compared to that of medical school. While you may have to locate the serratus anterior on a model or picture but in medical school you have to find it on a real body, know it's function, its innervations...In pharmacology a nurse have to know that Keflex/Rocephin,/Spectracef/Duricef/Ceftin are antibiotics and possibly that they are all cephalosporins but in medical school you have to know their generation, structure, how they function, what organisms they erradicate, what they are used to treat and why. These are generic examples but hopefully they support my claims that there is a difference between education and experience... Granted, there is something to be said for experience but it is not the same type of experience. As an RN in the ED, you are not running the show! You definitely have more experience than an RN of 5, 10, 15 years but it isn't the same as saying your knowledge is equivalent or superior to that of an MD with fewer years under their belt. Just because you have seen 100 chest tubes placed doesn't mean you can place a chest tube! I teach both medical students, residents, and NP students in private practice. Let me say that most NP's can't practice full spectrum family medicine to the level of their MD counterparts. I recently had a NP student who told me that she was equivalent to a 3rd year resident in her knowledge base and experience since she was an ER nurse/flight nurse of 15 years. Let me tell you, she was 3 months from graduation and couldn't tell the difference between a eustacean tube dysfunction and otitis media. She even had the audacity to argue with me about the diagnosis (She didn't even know what a ETD was!) but was there when he returned and my treatment of Veramyst/Prednisone/Guaifenesin effectively cured the problem without using an antibiotic. She states that she wants to go into private practice but can't even figure out what medicines to prescribe without looking everything up in a book. She couldn't accurately diagnose 30% of the patients she encountered! She couldn't explain simple things like the pathophysiology of gout....wanted to place a patient on Allopurinol without performing a 24 hour urine for uric acid to see if the patient was an overproducer or underexcretor of uric acid, not to mention that you don't treat acute gout with the drug because it makes the monoarthropathy worse....Yes a nurse may be able to tell you that you can use medicines such as Allopurinol, Probenecid, Prednisone, Colchicine NSAIDS..to treat gout but it is why you choose one medicine over the other, its impact on the pathophysiological process, the medication's effect on another medicine and the disease process...that makes what the physician knows different from that of the RN. This is an example of a NP student at one end of the spectrum because I've taught excellent NP's with sound clinical skills but regardless, a NP can probably do 80% of what an average FP MD can do, but what about the other 20%? Same thing applies to the practice of anesthesia. Do CRNA's feel their educations are equivalent to their MDA counterparts? They are not regardless of what anyone says! Yes CRNA's do an excellent job and provide a substantial number of the anesthesia cases in this country but they don't have the same educational basis as the MDA.
Let me say that I am not bashing the nursing profession.....My wife was an RN, my grandmother was an RN and served during the Normandy invasion, Several of my aunts are RN's...I respect nurses immensely and they are vital in the medical profession. Without good nurses the medical infrastructure would absolutely collapse. That being said, I don't feel a NP=FP MD or a CRNA=MDA...there is a lot of overlap in what we do but the route to get there is very different and is there for a reason. Would I trust a CRNA to provide me anesthesia...YES!!! Would I trust a NP to treat my bronchitis...YES!
This comment is intended for the nurse from 5/9 and not meant to get everyone bent out of shape. Medicine is a team sport that depends on each other to function properly.
As for farioreo...Disagree! CRNA's don't work twice as hard nor are they twice as caring. Just as in any profession, you'll find some wonderful and hardworking RN's and MD's as well as some worthless and intellectually frightful RN's and MDs. Like I've said in other posts on this site, just because you are a physician doesn't make you brilliant and just because your are a nurse doesn't mean your not. We have all been around MD's that couldn't find their way out of a wet paper sack and RN's that were more grounded and appeared to know more than the MD's they are working around. I have learned a lot from nurses and they have saved my ass on more than one occasion. This is one of the reasons I still teach and take the time to teach NP students. We do have to work together and I feel the whole CRNA/MDA needs to be put to rest. People choose different career paths for different reasons and it is important that we all work together for the betterment of the people we care for, regardless if we are an RN, MD, CRNA, NP, CNA, PCT...
Justin, most physicians aren't insecure! What do we have to be insecure about? Some may have big egos but that doesn't correlate to insecurity. I think the CRNA's/NP's have more of an insecurity complex because they are struggling for complete acceptance from society and many MD's that feel they either shouldn't be practicing medicine/anesthesia or aren't qualified. I personally have no problem with CRNA's and have had surgery a few times with CRNA's administering the anesthesia and have been nothing but pleased with my care. The flip side, I disagree with NP's getting unrestricted practice right without physician supervision. This is based on personal experience as both a practicing physician and clinical professor that spends a great deal of time educating both medical students and NP students.
Danke,
RAM MD
I started out in the Medical field as a nurse aid working under nurses in assisted living homes as means to finance my college education. Soon after I graduated with my B.S. in Biology I applied to PA school and got in. I since have graduated from the program and I am now getting ready to attend Medical School. When I was applying to PA school, at that time, I felt uncertain about my future. I knew I wanted to have a role in medicine, but I wasn’t sure where. I considered RN, but being a CNA for 4 years I learned their limitations. I wanted more responsibility. At the same time I didn’t want to spend all those years in school when I wasn’t 100% sure I wanted to retire in Medicine. So the best thing at the time was PA. I was attracted to the flexibility of the profession. If I didn’t like the job or I just got bored with the specialty I can change. That’s the way I felt at the time I was applying to PA school. As a PA student I was exposed to various aspects of medicine I didn’t know existed. I became good and excelled at what I did and I enjoyed it and now I have a passion for it. I want to reach the peak of my profession. I have PA friends who make $200,000 or more asking me what’s the point of going to Medical school when you can make as much as an MD with the education you have now. My answer is the Education. I want to excel in my profession. I want to be able to provide the pts I treat with the best medicine I can provide them with. As a PA student, we were trained along side with the Medical students. We took many of the same courses as well as the same exams. We were actually held to higher standards then the Medical students were. For example, on exams they were graded on a curve while we were not. But what I did notice is the level of education. The medical students go deeper, spend more time on subjects, and receive a richer education then we do. It was obvious when I went on my medical rotations. The PA student knew more about DX and treatment then the medical student, but the medical student knew more about the physiology and biology then we did. We received basic courses in those subjects, but not as in-depth. Having 20 years of experience working as a PA still does not equal the education that the doctors receive through medical school, residency, fellowship, and internship training. For the nurse who made a comment about working as an ER nurse for 20 yrs doesn’t mean you know as much as a doctor, PA, or NP who has only worked for 3 yrs. Their level of education far exceeds your experience. Is it feasible to say that a CNA working as a CNA for 20 years knows more then an RN with no experience? Hell no. I was a CNA, I know what they know and they know nothing. In the ER, you only see the clinical picture, but you don’t understand the biology, pathology, or physiology of what that pt is experiencing. Nor do you understand what the provider is ruling in / out when he is performing a physical exam. You don’t understand because you haven’t been trained in it. Having prior experience in any field is always good, but when you start NP school or Medical school, regardless of how many years of experience you have at your previous job, you will learn quick on how much you don’t know. And if you go into any new program thinking you know everything and not accepting the fact that you don’t know much, you will fail as a student and/or as a provider.
Texas PA-C
Well Said Danke!
What a bunch of geeks. What is the matter with some you(especially the high and mighty MD from 5/14/09). Clearly you have issues to sit there and type four pages of generalizations. In every profession and within each profession there are those that are good, average, and below average. Period. Save your flawed evidence for some pre-meds that anxious to believ your b.s. As an attorney, I can assure you that your logic has some serious flaws. Anyhow, that's about all the time I have. I gotta run to meet an MD who is deep in muddy waters. Funny, but I never get an attitude or the over confidence like the one from the above mentioned MD when they get sued for 5 mil. and they come crawling for help. Keep your ego in check and have respect for others. Every one can make a special contribution in their field of work.
Wow to the person who posted on 6/17/2009, you did not understand the post Danke made at all. And how ironic that you point out generalizations, yet look at what you have just posted. Great job attorney-looks like I will not be needing your services...
To RAM, MD
I heard what you were trying to say in the first couple paragraphs. Your arrogance is astounding! If presented with this comment about quantity and quality of knowledge between nurses and physicians most physicians would just grunt and walk away. As they should. Everyone who has gone through either training knows perfectly well the differences in them. Except you. Your defensive response is in fact embarassing to your profession. You sound like a child trying to justify an inequity.
I am a board certified anesthesiologist and I wonder if I had to do it all over again, I would go the nursing route and become a CRNA. It certainly would have been less years studying and the CRNA pay is better than most doctors', and I would guess that the education in the nursing pathway, even if the same subject matter, would not have been as grueling. I am not trying to insult any nurses here. Its just that I think the students in the medical track (from pre-med to medical student to residency) are probably (dare I say) smarter and thus, more competitive.
I guess when it comes down to it, Obama will decide if doctors are really need it in the future. If the American public and government policy dictate that Americans can only afford midlevel providers (PAs, CRNAs, AAs), then that's what they will get in the future. I don't think we need to argue about it. But, I would like to ask the CRNAs and other mid-level providers this question. Who would they or their loved one rather see if they are sick, and I mean really sick. If the midlevels can provide the same level of care, then I would assume they will just go to a midlevel provider. But, in my experience, it seems the midlevel providers, when they are sick, tend to want to see the doctor.
The docs who are bashing CRNA are perhaps Anesthesiologist who are terrified of the progress made by CRNA. Their fears are not without base. CRNA will rule anesthesia field one day. Anesthesiologist find some other profession before its toooooooooo late
As a recent new grad RN, I can honestly day that I don’t feel that Dr. RAM is being arrogant. I think it’s the truth - you simply CANNOT compare an MD and RN's education and experience. Sure, one might have 20 years exp. as an ED RN, but it just IS NOT the same as what an MD studies.
I always wanted to go to medical school but didn't think I was smart enough. I decided to do nursing instead...and I regret every minute of it. White nursing is great (I am working in the medical field, get to work with pts, and have time for a family) is just doesn’t fulfill my passion for medicine. I truly have a bigger passion for medicine than a desire for a family, but talked myself out of it. I wish I had more confidence in myself and wish I could take back my decision but I can’t and I have to live with that for the rest of my life (I am too old now to go back AND I would never be admitted to medical school with a BSN).
My point is - a doctor is a doctor and a nurse is a nurse. They are NOT interchangeable. Period.
Whoever posted on 7/28/09 needs to grow up. Really? Too late? I think you are just a little insecure about your self. Maybe a little jealous you were not smart enough to get in med school. Sucks for you.
Obamacare is coming. Neither Anestheisiologist or CRNA will be happy. Pick your fights, currently it is with our socialist president/congress. Now is the time to protect the practice of anesthesia and freedom of choice. Don't think this will just hurt the Anesthesiologist, crap flows down hill. You think CRNA's salaries won't go down? None of the anesthesia care providers are going to be happy. The AMA and the CRNA organizations have sold us all out. Be prepared for a decrease in salary or early retirement from the healthcare system. Healthcare facilities are under the pressure to provide the best care possible, they will measure that by one's credentials. Those with less will remain subordinate. Chain of command has never changed over history. Those that forget the past are condemed to repeat it. Remember the art of war "kill the officers and the battle is won".
I am a Doctor. I am smart. I know I am smarter than all the nurses and CRNAs and I know that you are all jealous that you couldn't become an MD. I make slot of money and I could care less! However it's not always about the money. All this MD bashing is bc you wanted to be one but you couldn't and that sucks for all of you!!! By the way love Denke comments....sugar coated----- for all the nurses ;)
Im also an MDA practicing at an hospital in Miami Fl, CRNAs are quite helpful but the fact they want to raise themselves higher than they actually are, that make them look stupid sometimes... I usually ask them do you wanna teach me how to do this? with a smiley face and they get discouraged and start listening to me... I was raised in Haiti and graduated from a Dominican Republic med school... I can say that US med students are very arrogant and dont realize that medicine is not a profession but a vocation.. I ve seen MD's yelling at RNs. This is pure ignorance. I thank God everyday for giving me the opportunity not to cure people but to to keep the body alive while it cures itself.. In reality our job as MD's would be worthless if the body does not react to our medications... MD's should be very humble and never think of comparing themselves to anyone. Just do your job and go home.. i work from 7A-7P 5D/W last year i made $387 000. quite a lot of money for someone who was raised and study in a third world country.... So Everyone just relax, take a chill a pill and start helping if you encounter some that you cant help, just do the best you can and come back the next to help the next one... Be in peace with yourself and your surroundings... Lets practice MEDICINE
I am a big fan of this site and enjoy the articles and comments, (most of the time.) I do, however, find this clash of egos between doctors and nurses disparaging as it is beneath both of your professions. I'm a paramedic firefighter and can do some procedures most nurses can't, i.e. intubation, etc, but I'm sure many nurses are good at things I'm not very good at either. Physicians have obviously gone the extra mile with their training and education, but we all have important roles to fill and can't do them without each other. It seems to me that accepting your role for what it is would be far more productive than some of the anger and negativity depicted by some of these disparaging comments. In the end, we're all trying to care for our patients (hopefully) to the best of our skill level and make a living (to one degree or another) while doing what we love! Best of luck to you all, whatever your role!
What came first the RNA or the MDA?
To 8/23/09...like anyone believes you. You cannot even type a proper sentence. How much is "slot" of money? Congratulations MD you're officially an idiot.
I am a CRNA and recently stumbled onto this forum. I couldn't help but notice the post "who would you want to provide your anesthesia?" or something along those lines. Hopefully, this person answered, "A CRNA". CRNA's provide 70% of the anesthesia in this country. Education and experience combined, you want the CRNA...trust me...my patients do.
Fred CRNA
People, people...refocus on what really matters. It's not about who has the biggest Balls or who make more money, there is a human life that one is reponsible for. Doctors don't forget to educate your Nurses in a kind manner, pass on the knowledge that you have learned in med school, nurses can help the doctors as needed with confidence. I agree RN does not equal MD. At the end of the day dignity and respect should overcome everyones insecurities. Peace and Love to all Medical PROFESSIONALS.
What a load of crap. After 16 years of being a healthcare professional I can honestly say that doctors unbelievable. Our training in both the anatomy and pathophysiology is unmatched in any other profession blah, blah blah. Who would you rather have taking care of your family member blah, blah, blah. As if they have some secret golden book that is only available to them in medical school. Had to argue in front of 3 students with one nut job MD just yesterday. I was trying to explain the difference between using the assist control(AC) mode of ventilation vs using presure regulated volume control(PRVC). This complete ass actually argues with me and states that PRVC is the same as AC. I have to inform him that PRVC is actually a spin off of the mode pressure contol(PC). PC mode has 3 distinct advantages. 1st, you set the pressure so you are able to control peak airway pressures. 2nd, you can ventilate patients at a much lower pressure because this mode uses a decelerating wave form pattern, 3rd PC aids in better gas distribution and improves oxygenation. The main disadvantage is that there is no guaranteed ventilation because you set the pressure and tidal volumes become the variable dependent on lung characteristics. Pressure regulated volume control came about because of this disadvantage. With pressure control when volumes drop you have to turn up the pressure. Pressure regulated volume control does this for you thus delivering guaranteed ventilation to the patient. PRVC can be defined as having all the advantages of pressure control along with having guaranteed ventilation as well. After several minutes of arguing in front of ICU nurses and students I finally defined it for him and he tucked his tail and ran. The problem with MD's is that they think that a few letters behind their names automatically makes them an expert on all matters health care related. So who would you want taking care of your family member? The pulmonary fellow who knew less about the mechanical ventialor than the 2nd year respiratory therapy student? How can you adequately ventilate your patients in a level 1 trauma center if you don't even know the basic mode of ventilation concepts. Save all the well you'll run accross a bad one every now and then. I run accross more like this nut than I do good ones.
Sent a patient from the burn unit to the OR the other day. Patient was severly burned over 60% of their body requiring the use of PRVC. When the anesthesiologist brought him back he told me to put him on assist control. His peak airway pressures(PAP's) had been around 60 on PRVC. I politely explained to him that this would result in a significant increase in PAP's. He grunted change it. As soon as I made the change the vent started to alarm to which he replied what's that alarm? I said the peak airway high pressure alarm. He replied, so turn it up. It was already at 70 and he wanted to increase the high pressure alarm to 100! I said OK, he walked out and I simply changed the settings to what they were before the patient left to the relief and satisfaction of the plastics resident taking care of the pt. So what do you get when you request a anesthesiologist over a CRNA in that situation? I guess bilateral chest tubes!
The difference between the education received through medical school vs. nursing school is vast. This isn't to say one is less, but greatly different. It is as though one is all about the "how" and the other about the "why". Knowing how to do something and knowing why to do it is the difference between the sage and a master. The comparison is that of the experienced carpenter and that of the engineer. The carpenter could build your house, but he needs the plans laid out by the engineer. The engineer has performed the calculations as to why the beams may need to be 12 inches instead of the usual 8 inches. Still there would be no buildings without those who go out everyday and to perform the rigorous task of measuring and cutting the boards and placing them just so as described in the plans. Doctors rely on their nursing staff as nurses rely on doctors. It isn't just the medical field where education causes a rift between employees. Respect goes both ways.
Briefly,
RAM admited nurses have saved his asson more than one occasion....he is not the only one. No one is perfect, at least he can admit it.
Rn vs.md...yes vastly differnt base...both equally important. While the nurse may not have the didactic course of the Dr. they are the ones at pt.side monitoring the treatment modalities thusly gaining atremondous insight.
Midlevel providers are just that.mid level ...they can provide typicaly 80-90 percent of teh services of the Dr. because they do not have the same edcation base the dr. has. Np..crna get alotof experience first then go to higher education and clinicals, while Dr goes to school thenlearms to practice. We allneed each other and all play an important part.
mid levels are not physicians but provide anabsolute need in teh industry. I have saved many Dr asses and helped to teach med students in the ED,ICU, specials et al areas in thirteen years as a nurse. I have also learned a tremendous amout from the Dr's I have worked with as they have for the most part ...been more than happy to impart knowledge they worked hard to gain. Ihave out "doctored" some and been blown away by the brilliance of others.There are great Dr's,mid levels and Rn and tehere are terrible ones. Let it rest! Do teh best we can for teh Pt. We letGod heal and we are vessles to aid that process. I currently am seeking mid level acceptance and strive to gain as much knowledge from the phycians as I canspImay Assist thier service to the pt where I am able so they can be free to focus on teh cases more difficult or beyond the scope of mid level care. I hope all can work on the team approach regardless of what Obamacare brings, afterall, we are hear for the public..did Isay briefly?
I'm a third year undergrad. I recently switched from pre-med to nursing so that I can be a CRNA. I think it's ridiculous and, frankly, a little discouraging to see so many seasoned professionals b****ing like little girls about who's smarter or more qualified to do what they were adequately schooled and trained to do for a living... ? like... seriously? get over yourselves.
People go to med school because they want to be knowledgeable experts, and because they want to be RECOGNIZED as knowledgeable experts. But it's ludicrous to suggest that an MD is somehow "smarter" than a CRNA just because he or she made the decision to go to school for 1,000+ years and spend 5,000 years in residency. If a CRNA had the burning desire to invest the time and money into LEARNING everything that an MD is required to learn, they could. Hence the fact that a handful of CRNAs actually go back to grad school and get their MDA.
How "smart" a person is isn't a measure of how much they quantitatively know. It's about their ability to learn, retain and utilize the information they're given practically and sensibly. I am smart. Doctors and CRNAs, alike, are smart. If they weren't smart, they wouldn't be capable of doing their jobs, they wouldn't be given the amount of responsibility they're given, and they wouldn't be compensated so generously for their time and expertise--but obviously they are, aren't they....
I decided I wanted to be a CRNA because I wanted the opportunity to invest more in patient care. Like hands-on, personal, "I'm HERE for you" patient care. Doctors care for patients. But the simple fact is that that's not what they're there for. They're there to be knowledgeable experts. Most nurses are not medical experts, but they most certainly are experts at what they do.
In short, you all have complexes. I suggest serious psychological help. My only hope is that when the time comes for me to perform my duties as a (well-paid) CRNA, I won't have to deal with immature, overcompensating, ego-driven "professionals" such as yourselves.
(I didn't read every comment in this forum as I was beginning to feel a little nauseated. Moreover, this post was not necessarily directed towards the lot of you... but maybe it was.)
ALL YOU GUYS ESPECIALLY the guy who wrote the last comment are fags.........BOTH CRNAS AND DOCTORS are miserable.....i have crnas and doc's in my family and they truely hate their jobs with no question.....even the compensation is not as great as u may thinnk......you end up in so much debt (crna=70,000tuition, 40000 bsn +30000$ + high malpractive suits ) (MDs= 200000+$$tuition..little residence pay)....there are so many better jobs, fuck seriously you think you know "guy who left the last comment" but you dont..........self ritious douchebag...dont go into crna profession trust me on that..from personal advice, its not wise for the debt and the boredom on the job......my uncle complains about how its monotonous, and he wishes he went another route....
........Some how.........or another.........I.......never......learned.....that a simple ........... capitalization of the first.......letter of the.........first word.......and a period.......after the........last word........is sufficient.......to tell individuals......that my sentence........is over........
Seriously though, is it any surprise that other professions are trying to get a piece of the pie of what physicians have? Isn't our countries motto the home of the self deserving and lazy (or was it brave)? Anyway, it's only a matter of time before a 1 year degree at a community college will allow someone to treat patients.
I mean seriously where do you draw the line? If a CRNA can do what a Doctor does with much more training, why couldn't a college graduate do what a CRNA does? Why couldn't a graduate with an associates degree do what the bachelors degree graduate does? Why couldn't a high school student who went to a tech school do what the associates degree student does?
Some of you sound like my 6th grader who upon bringing home 4.0 GPA wants to know what it takes for her to start college next semester to study pediatric oncology. A few of you sound like my 4th grader who wrote a school report on why he wants to work at Home Depot selling lumber...
IN a nutshell, my 2-yr-old was diagnosed with leukemia, which from the “patient’s perspective” that means the most valuable medical opinion I have is that of her oncologists, yet both the anesthesiologist and the CRNA (which we see once a month for almost 2 years now for IT chemo) have performed excellently too. Nonetheless, it is the oncology RN whom we see ALL THE TIME. She is pretty much the “gasoline” for those Rolls Royce engines. She is available upon request, has most polished bedside manners; she has prompt and correct medical answers, or she gets answers from those unreachable MD places. She knows, off the top of her head, where my child is in treatment, whereas the MD and CRNA have to look at her chart to know.
Yes, sometimes more knowledge is simply more knowledge, but not best medical care. I have placed the life of my child in the trust of healthcare licenses of oncologists, pharmacists, CRNA, anesthesiologist, pathologists and oncology RNs, and each of these licenses have provided a degree of EXCELLENT MEDICAL CARE considering my child is surviving that beast.
Which professional made the most money is irrelevant to my child and I at the end of the day. All of you degree holders need these horrible diseases to feed yourselves, while my child and I need the expertise of your licenses to have a chance at life too.
If an RN job makes you happy and pays your bills, be the BEST RN in your community.
If a CRNA job makes you happy and pays your bills, be the BEST CRNA in your community.
If an MD degree makes you happy and pays your bills, be the BEST anesthesiologist in your community.
If selling lumber at Home Depot makes you happy and pays your bills, be the BEST at selling lumber.
Kind regards,
Sharon's Mom
grow up guys. seriously.
worry about your own profession and stop judging other peoples' careers.
you all seem insecure.
First off, I will try and not verbally lambaste some of you on here that posted some comments that completely nauseated me and diminished the inspiration of going further into the medical field due to the total disrespect and ill contempt for each other. Seriously, please try to show each other some respect and quit with the hatred. We are supposed to be humanitarians in this field. Sharon’s mom was the only comment that made any sense to me at all. People going into any field should love what they do, but if money is your only goal you should not be in medicine since it is about people not your selfish gains.
I have been a CNA/EMT/ER tech for 4 years and graduated with my pre-med last year. I have had a few med school interviews but have not been accepted yet. I am beginning to look into other fields since I am 26 and want to begin a career before I am 32, so CRNA is looking pretty tempting. Nevertheless, I could care less if I make 45,000-300,000. All I want is to do something that makes me happy, something I can excel in, and helps others. Yet, when I see people on here that are so bitter and can only seem to dwell on money and career rivalry (D.O. vs. M.D, or NP vs. M.D. etc…) it makes me sad and disappointed. As a CNA in a hospital for 2 years I have been treated like crap by some and with respect by others. The strife starts from the bottom, works its way up, turns its ugly head, and then works its way back down again… I struggled a long time thinking that I was worthless as a CNA, that my job was useless and that I was so much more competent than to be stuck doing some bottom of the barrel nursing assistant job. However, one day I had a neural surgeon pull me aside after work (who had over heard me ragging on myself for still working as a CNA and not in med school yet). The surgeon told me that he worked as a CNA until he was 27 before acceptance into med school. He explained that I performed a job that few could do or would want to do (hahaha) and to be proud of that. Besides his little motivational booster, he really explained how the medical field has been jaded by prestige and hierarchy battles among its professionals. Yes, some do make more than others, but you know what they worked extremely hard to get there and earn that compensation. But it is not all about the compensation and prestige. He made it very clear that it is a drive to help others and prove to yourself that you can do it. The one thing I took away from this (and I hope at least one other person does too) is that we all have different levels of education and compensation for skills we perform from day to day in the medical field; however, if you are just doing it for the money and status you are clearly missing the point and probably are miserable with you career. Find what you like, not what you think will continuously rub your ego to an overextended erection and make you rich. And overall, if you really don’t have compassion for others please don’t go into medicine for the sake of people like Sharon and Sharon’s mom, cause they can see right through your BS attitude. And don’t tell me that I don’t know what I am talking about and that you get burnt out on people, cause I have met doctors, nurses, CNAs, and all sorts of mid level health care professionals that have practiced for over 20 years and still have that compassion and sympathy (My mom, uncle, and grandfather included in those fields listed).
Sincerely,
JP
future something medical and where I belong and am needed