Dentist Versus Primary Care Doctor Salaries in USA
Reality check - if a High School student were to choose between being a primary care physician (Family Medicine, Psychiatry, Internist, Pediatrics) OR a Dentist, purely on the basis of monetary, life-style and educational investment terms, then being a Dentist would probably make more sense today, and surely when it comes to Private Practice
Let's analyze some more:
Lifestyle:
The Money:
The Education:
Here are some revealing extracts from Mark Maremount's excellent article :
"Why Dentists Earn More than Some Family Doctors"
- "On average, general dentists in 2000, the most recent year for which comparative data are available, earned $166,460 -- compared with $164,100 for general internal-medicine doctors, $145,700 for psychiatrists, $144,700 for family-practice physicians, and $137,800 for pediatricians."
- "A dentist Dr. Bryson and his wife (who works part-time in her hubby's practice) bring in more than $500,000/- a year, while his brother Dr. Fazioli, a Family Physician brings in less than $ 180,000/- a year"
- "Dr. Bryson works four days a week, drives a Mercedes, and lives in a 4,000-square-foot house with a pool"
- "Most private dental insurance is still paid on a fee-for-service basis. Many optional procedures aren't covered by insurance, leaving dentists free to charge whatever the market will bear"
And what's the most common call that Sally McKenzie, a dental-practice consultant, gets ? =
"help dentists manage 'uncontrolled growth'" - LOL !
Read the Entire Article here.
Of course the specialist Physicians still earn more than the dentist, but at the cost of more work-hours, frustration over lack of professional autonomy from the managed care model and much more investment in terms of education.
Search keywords to this blog article:
- "Dentist versus doctors & physicians"
- "Is it better to be a dentist or a Doctor?"
- "who makes more - dentist or doctor?"
- "dentists vs doctors quality of life"
- "MD vs. DDS salary"
- "MD versus DDS incomes"
Let's analyze some more:
Lifestyle:
- Average Work Hours For Dentists = 40 Hours Per Week and many work only 4 days a week
- Average Work Hours for Family Physicians, Pediatricians, Internists : 55 to 70 hours a week
- Dentists hardly have emergencies, don't take night calls, relaxed work hours & posh practices
- Primary Care Guys must take Night Calls and Emergencies
- Being a Dentist is considered glamorous by many, cosmetic dentistry procedures like smile reconstruction, teeth whitening, etc. are bringing in good money without the hassle of managed care and third party payers, which have been making life miserable for the Primary Care Physicians.
The Money:
- In Private Practice, the Dentists incomes are often more that what the Primary Care Physicians bring in, specialists Dentists like Orthodontists are known to rake in more than 200,000$ a year.
- While the Primary Care Physicians are now changing the way they practice - using Concierge medicine for less hectic lifestyles and resorting to cosmetic procedures like Botox Injections / Medical Spas to augment their reducing incomes
The Education:
- To be a dentist, the American students complete a 3 to 4 years Bachelors degree, take the single Dental Aptitude Test and gain admission to a 4-year Dental School, take the 2 board exams and can start practice as a general dentist. Specialization needs 2-3 years more of paid residencies
- To be a Primacy care doc, an American Student must complete a 4 year Pre-medical Bachelors, pass the MCAT to then enter 4 years of Medical school, take 4 USMLE (licensure Exams) steps and complete a 3 to 4 year paid residency before getting licensed to practice.
Here are some revealing extracts from Mark Maremount's excellent article :
"Why Dentists Earn More than Some Family Doctors"
- "On average, general dentists in 2000, the most recent year for which comparative data are available, earned $166,460 -- compared with $164,100 for general internal-medicine doctors, $145,700 for psychiatrists, $144,700 for family-practice physicians, and $137,800 for pediatricians."
- "A dentist Dr. Bryson and his wife (who works part-time in her hubby's practice) bring in more than $500,000/- a year, while his brother Dr. Fazioli, a Family Physician brings in less than $ 180,000/- a year"
- "Dr. Bryson works four days a week, drives a Mercedes, and lives in a 4,000-square-foot house with a pool"
- "Most private dental insurance is still paid on a fee-for-service basis. Many optional procedures aren't covered by insurance, leaving dentists free to charge whatever the market will bear"
And what's the most common call that Sally McKenzie, a dental-practice consultant, gets ? =
"help dentists manage 'uncontrolled growth'" - LOL !
Read the Entire Article here.
Of course the specialist Physicians still earn more than the dentist, but at the cost of more work-hours, frustration over lack of professional autonomy from the managed care model and much more investment in terms of education.
Search keywords to this blog article:
- "Dentist versus doctors & physicians"
- "Is it better to be a dentist or a Doctor?"
- "who makes more - dentist or doctor?"
- "dentists vs doctors quality of life"
- "MD vs. DDS salary"
- "MD versus DDS incomes"
Labels: Dental Salaries, Dentist
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posted by Digitaldoc, MD at 7:40 PM
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Dental Thornhill said ... (12/14/2009) :
Post Your Comment !My Husbands a doc, our neighbor is a dentist. The dentist pays $1,000. a year for malpractice insurance, my husband pays $40,000. a year!
Be a dentist!
i don't know why under "education" the article downplays the undergraduate dental curriculum. students must complete the same "4 year pre-medical" degree for entrance to dental school as they do for medical school, not just any "3 to 4 year" degree. "take the single DAT??" as if there are multiple med-school aptitude tests??..
There is no downplaying here, instead being a dentist is being praised here - but at the same time its also true that medical students have to study and know WAY MORE than dental students in the undergrad curriculum. And I am not saying this because of any bias, I have a friend doing dental school while I am doing my medical school at the same university.
Secondly, it takes another 3-5 years of residency after medical school before medical students can get out and practice, while dentists can start practice directly after dental school - again pointing to lesser years in education
I apologize if it sounded like underplaying, I was instead trying to stress how becoming and practicing as a dentist is quicker than as a primary care physician. Do not misconstrue that as underplaying. :-)
The boarding of Dentists slightly innacurate,
written board end of 2nd year dental, written board end of 4th year, clinical board at end of 4th year, so- 3 board exams. Also Dentists are clinically boarded regionally where as MD's are boarded ntionally only having to take a simple jurisprudence exam.
Also - Pre-dent is same as pre-med
I am not sure where that one is coming from otherwise.
p.s. both Dentist and Physicians are "Docs"
i'm pretty sure DAT stands for dental admission test and not dental aptitude test. sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine when i see that, probably caused by the SAT.
as anonymous above said:
p.s. both Dentist and Physicians are "Docs"
Why only dentists seem to say that?
It's not just about money.
it is dental admission test..i'm currently studyin for it as we speak..
Inferiority complex???
yes, they r both docs!
except that dentists make double the income with half of the hours! lol
i do 6 days a week and my last year income was slightly in excess of 320 K $, my mal-practice insurance was exactly 176.00 us $!
i know a friend neuro-surgeon who gets around 500k , his mal-practice ins. eats over half of that and he work way more hours than i do! now, simple math! who makes more???!!!
p.s: did i mention, last year was actually my first year, as iam actually a new graduate working as an associate on 40% of collections ...which is around 97-98% of production in dentistry, rather than the usual 60% collection off production in medicine....
MD.s out there.....i pitty you! lol
dentist-chicago
Dentist you my work less hours but how can what you do be gratifying. You are basically considered a janitor of the mouth.
In addition we both are not doctors, when someone collapses in a restaurant and screams "we need doctor" a dentist would run in the opposite direction.
Money is not everything, and there can be no debate that being a doctor is more gratifying than being a dentist.
I agree with all who posted " money is not everything". At the end of a long and hectic work week, I'd like to have the satisfaction of knowing that I've provided in invaluable service to my community, and at the same time, am living out my dream. For me personally, the lure of dentistry was very strong but I realized that my passion lie in medicine, and in the end, a big pay-check and an 'easy' lifestyle were not good substitutes for life-long career enjoyment.
Unbelievable self-righteous geeks here... LOL
1) Of course it is about the money... if medicine or dentistry didn't pay as much as they did very few people would want to do either.
2)Is an MD considered more noble than a DMD/DDS? Perhaps it is, since life and death are very rarely issues for a dentist. But should the dentists care? Definitely not. They'd rather go home and tend to your wife and kids.
There is another important element that favors the success of Dentists.
Unlike their M.D. counterparts, they were politically saavy and were pro-active in heading off managed care and government pressures / influence (i.e. expand schools, import foreign dentists, etc), long before doctors were even aware of those looming trends.
the initial dental and medical school curriculum are actually not all that different as they both focus on the hard science basics. They really diverge only later when diagnosis becomes more important.
The line between both professions is actually blurring too as a lot of dental research is now connecting dental conditions (and various proteins) to helping diagnose cardiovascular and neurological conditions. Research dentistry is very pharma heavy now.
Yea if Medicine was as Prestigious and Lucrative as it used to be, I would surely go for med. I'm not afraid to work hard, but I am afraid in medicine the hard work won't pay off. Yes it may pay off in the form of satisfaction in helping the community and blah blah blah, but sorry, education is nothing but an investment, would you invest in something that you know won't pay off? Thus, I'll be going to dental school next year. GL to everyone else
My friend finished dental school and she refused to practice because she realized that she doesn't want to stare at someone's mouth for the rest of her life. So she kept going back to training to become more specialized and ended up teaching for much less money.
If you pay attention to the recent news, GM workers make $70/hr (about 145K/yr) with a high school diploma.
On a side note, I'm a clinical pharmacist working at a government hospital and I made 150K last year (plus benefits and pension). I've heard some graveyard hospital job in the Bay Area (San Francisco) pays up to 200K plus benefits and pension.
My point is, pay rate for MD and DDS are not keeping up with inflation. Do not go to dental or medical school unless for the money.
Go into the career you feel is the best suited for you. Both medicine and dentistry offer comfortable incomes. Personally I went into medicine and eventhough dentists make comparable incomes and have less hectic work weeks, I wouldn't choose dentistry even if they paid twice as much. I don't want to drill on teeth and pick crap out of people's mouths....but that is just me. Don't be swayed by the salaries either....Much of it is geographic, hours worked, specialty, self employed v salaried! I make a great living as a FP/EM MD (420K) and my uncle cleared 7 figures as a primary MD. Once my building is completely leased out I will exceed 7 figures as well. Needless to say, be a dentist because you want to be a dentist, be a physician because you want to practice medicine but don't settle on a career because of the pay. I have some friends that went into dentistry because they failed to gain admission into medical school and 2 of them are flat ass miserable. Before someone feels the need to bash me...I know that dental school is competitive to gain acceptance to and this happened several years ago so relax! I'm also glad to hear that people aren't beating up those online for choosing such careers for the money. I agree that most of us are drawn to such professions because they get paid well and to be called doctor. You would be foolish to say that those don't appeal to most! After all, medicine and dentistry are our chosen professions and we expect to get paid for the years of school, lost time enjoying life, high student loan debt and stress that comes with private practice!
PS Be the best doctors you can be (MD, DO, DPM, DDS, DMD....) and the money will follow...especially if you are good at what you do!!!
RAM MD
I am a general dentist. I have been out practicing two years. Last year I made $150,000. My brother is a general dentist. he has been out practicing 7 years. In 2008, he made $404,000. My father is a general dentist. In 2008, he made $525,000. Yes this is their salary after overhead was paid. We all work 3.5 days a week. I have a hard time believeing you can beat this profession as an MD (or lawyer or business man) Just my two cents...
LOL! You really should go ask how much some of these orthopedic surgeons, cardiologists, GI docs make when they partner. In a good practice they easily make triple ur father's income.
I agree that dentists make a good living given what they do and the hours put in but as a whole, medicine is much more lucrative. I make more than the DDS and I'm a primary care physician. My uncle makes nets 2mil as a CEO and owner of a chain or urgent cares. My wife is a approaching 3/4million as an Anesthesiologist. Easier to make money in medicine but it comes with longer work hours and more difficult training programs before entering into private practice.
RAM MD
So if dentistry si really that good, I am not confused why so many people want to become a doctor? Why do the requirements of becoming a doctor is higher and tougher than those required to become a dentist? Because all those who choose to become a doctor are stupid, considered they made into medicine?
Probably because those people are trying to pursue a career and not a job. They want to be a doctor and make money. Not make money and be a doctor. Could you put a price on being able to save peoples lives? Would you ever in your whole life be able to tell someone that you kept someone from dieing. That you saved someones mom or dad or daughter or son? That's what I see being a doctor as.
Haha, I've never seen the attraction in wondering how much other people earn.
I'm currently aiming to be a dentist and yes, the comfortable salary did appeal but the fact is I have never even considered medicine with interest but dentistry somehow lured me in. It wasn't mainly a question of money.
There are many factors about working in a dental practice I enjoy. The close atmosphere of working in a small team. The satisfaction of providing a good service and the pleasure of meeting the same people through regular check-ups and getting to know families. Also the obscurity and diversity within the trade.
To be honest I found some of these comments amusing. If you are a doctor or aspiring to be one and posted how its not about money, it obviously is as you must have been curious about the comparison of salaries to have found this page. Might as well be honest about it.
Anyway in the end its about doing something you enjoy as most of us will spend more time at work than anywhere else.
For the comment about being janitors of the mouth, that is what dental hygienists are for.
As for the saving lives bit, I'd rather not have that responsibility and the possible psychological trauma that comes with not being able to save a life when it is in your scope of knowledge to be able to. I'm a p&c insurance broker and i know the premiums of md's compared to dds which means there is a lot more that can go wrong with being an md.
By the way I'm contemplating a career change to dentistry.
MD's work in hospitals as salaried workers. So they don't have any idea of the real costs associated with doing business. Dentists have a lot of overhead because they have to operate and pay for dental practices. These simple salary surveys don't include everything in the calculation. So don't get too bitter. Besides, get mad at insurance companies, don't get mad at dentists.
Ram MD, ever though of going back to India to Practice?
My dad's an oral surgeon. I didn't know how much he made until last year. I was pretty surprised to see him pulling in 5.3 million dollars NET last year. The best part is, he has plenty of time to spend with family and other things.
Sorry to say, that I'm not from India. Born and educated in the US, so needless to say I won't be going abroad. Life is good right where I am, at least for now! Will see what Obama does to change that.
RAM, MD
As I read these post while doing research for a policy proposal project, I can't help but be amused by the number of people who talk about the satisfaction of saving lives, helping people out and then in the same breath, point out how much they make. Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys with the 7 figures pay in malpractice insurance? Also, does the large salaries denote better treatment of patients and/or quality of care on your part, or does it mean that because of shortages in your chosen field you can get away with charging more? And what about those of you who mentioned "saving lives" as one of the reasons for becoming doctors? Do you guys put as much effort into treating the drugged out meth head as you do in saving the lives of more productive members of society? I must confess, that I'm not a medical professional and/or student. I am a public policy/MPA student, and future member of the political elite(i.e the guys who decide how much of those 7 figure salaries you pay in taxes, and how much John Q Public can get from you in malpractice suits). And while I apologize for the somewhat combative tone of this post, I do however believe that your comments to a certain extent, only further the stereotype the public has about doctors. Now if someone would comment on how both dentist and doctors justify the large numbered salaries, I would greatly appreciate it. As it stands though...I hope that those of you bragging about your salaries give excellent care to your patients and are not exploiting the doctor shortage in order to finance your expensive lifestyles. Also, those of you who want to blame the drug companies, President Obama, the Democrats etc. for the cost of practicing medicine need to get a clue. The main culprit for the growing desire to nationalize the health care system and the growing cost of malpractice insurance comes as a result of the things you do or don't do. When your fellow doctors leave surgical tools in patients and/or prescribe the wrong drugs and kill a patient, guess what? Not only do those patients' families sue you, but then they come to someone like me in order to sponsor some sort of populist legislation designed to prevent that from happening to someone else. The reason for so much regulation in your field is because at some point, someone probably died. That's also the reason you guys get watched like hawks and why people have a hard time trusting you. And another thing...You guys are in a profession that is short on man power and large on paychecks, yet your political lobby has less power then the group that represents gun toting rednecks. You have money(and if you're a dentist, plenty of free time), you have education..Use it. Either become politically active or shut up when unfriendly medical legislation gets passed both on the state and federal level. Again I apologize for the somewhat combative tone of this post, but the things I've read here have done a good number on what few sympathies I have for people in your profession.
I am interventional cardiologist. I work about 55 hours per week (weekends off) and last year(my first year after fellowship) I made close to 650K including bonus. I paid off my student loans, bought 6500 SQFT house and I'll be buying a brand new bentley for my wife who is also MD(radiologist) for her birthday. Thats all in our one year salary. We dont even know what we will do with our money after we pay off our house next year. So thats about money and I just turned 30 and my wife will turn 29.
I did residency and fellowships for 7 years after my MD (5 years IM+cardio and 2 years interventional fellowship). You can get your MD in 5 years after you finish your highschool if you know how to. So I saved about 3 years compare to DDS so basically I worked extra 4 years in residency and fellowship compare to avg DDS.
So this was about money and amount of time.
Now lets talk about real deal. I save atleast 7-8 heart attacks per day. Atleast half of them would lead to death so I save atleast 3-4 lives per day and thats average for any cardiologist. I work 5 days per week for 45 weeks in a month. so about 15-20 lives per week or around 700 lives per year. I dont think any DDS can say that. I would do this job for 10 dollars an hour.
I enjoy every second of my work. Specially when I take some 7 year old girl to CCU and tell her that her mom is out of danger and she will not have heart attack anytime soon, I feel like that should worth my extra 4 years compare to DDS.
So Now you tell me how your DDS is better than my MD ??
Dr.R MD
To Anon from 3/27/09
Malpractice insurance is based on specialty, geographic location, years in practice, and past practice history. It has nothing to do with one's net income. It is not like paying taxes! Those in higher paying specialties typically have higher malpractice premiums because they are usually procedural based practices. That being said, some MD's don't pay anything personally, the hospital or group does (ER, Anesthesiology...). As for the large salaries? Salary is based on specialty, years in practice, location, reputation, and has nothing to do with shortages in a specialty. The shortages within the work force are coming from the primary care sector where physicians typically earn less. Unknown to most, we don't make up the prices we charge! The insurance companies as part of the contract agreements made with the physicans do that for us. This also depends on the specialty as well, (ie the Cardiologist gets paid more for taking care of HTN than the internist or FP), but that is life! Yes, we do put as much effort into saving the life of a drug addict as we would the average person on the street. Why? 1st, we have taken an oath to provide medical care to the best of our abilities, regardless of the situation. 2nd, if we provide anything less than the best and sometimes even then, you run the risk of getting sued. How do MD's and DDS's justify their salaries? Take a good look at what we do for a living! It requires a huge commitment of time and resources to just reach a position to provide care to others. Most are in their late 20's to early 30's, have families, up to 300K in loan debt... before you ever begin earning an income. then it is a residency salary where you spend 80 hour work weeks to make between 30-50K. Medicine is not only a calling, it is a business! This is how we make a living and I personally feel we get paid less than we should given the decisions we make in caring for others and the time and education involved in becoming a physician or dentist. You should be complaining about the salary of the baseball player with a HS education making 20 million a year, who is doped up on illicit drugs, using anabolic steroids and beating up his wife, not the Cardiologist who makes 750K saving your life while your dying from an MI! just irritates the hell out of me when other have issues with what doctors make. Spend one day in my shoes and you will realize we deserve every penny, and probably then some!!! Exploiting the physician shortage to finance our lifestyles??? What? The salaries of physicians aren't even keeping up with inflation. There are more CEO's, business owners, corporate elite, athletes....driving around in 100K cars, living in 1 million + homes and taking vacations all over BFE than than the average physician. Most of the docs I know spend most of their time either in the office or in the hospital taking care of people who don't take care of themselves! Most are lucky to get a couple of vacations with their families every year. I wouldn't call my 80 hour work week a great lifestyle, regardless of the paycheck.
Guess what? It "is" the drug companies, the insurance companies, liberal policy makers such as yourself, frivolous law suits.....that drives up the cost of health care. It is not the average doctor doing this despite what you may believe. Spend some more time researching your answers and going to school before you make such ill supported statements and accusations. You are right, you are not a medical professional and it shows! If you were, your opinions would be much different!
You and your liberal buddies are the ones who want nationalized health care. It won't work in this country and believe it or not, actually decreases your access to health care! Do you think you will be able to get an MRI when you injure your knee? You will be placed on a waiting list because the facilities and physicians who own and operate these can't afford it anymore! I hope you don't get a bad headache either, as you wait for a CT/MRI/MRA on the waiting list you fought hard to support, your tumor continues to get larger and the oops inoperable! Yea, medications are cheaper in Canada, but have you ever noticed how many Canadians cross the border for scans and certain procedures? It is because access to them is limited. The medical communities are well trained, they just don't have the direct access as they would here in this country. See what happens in this country when people who used to having access to the best healthcare has to offer are suddenly denied that right. I have never seen an uninsured patient roll through the ED and be denied a CT scan or MRI when it is necessary regardless of their ability to pay! I guess as supposed wealthy physicians, it is our responsibility to pay for it with the increased tax proposal passed by OBAMA! The main culprit is the the things MD's do or don't do, such as leaving instruments in the surgical site or prescribing the wrong medication? Mistakes happen! Should you be held responsible? Absolutely! Is this what drives up the cost of healthcare? I've seen more people kill themselves taking OTC Tylenol than by the mistakes of physicians. Everyone wants to blame their physicians for literally everything. You used crack and meth in pregnancy and lost your baby...the MD's fault! They should have told me that it is harmful to my child and now I'm going to sue! And yes there are some dumbass attorneys that will take her case and drive the physicians malpractice insurance up. `The only complaint I've ever had filed against me was from a lady from out of state. It involved a woman to whom I gave a Zostavax vaccine to that somehow developed a full blown case of shingles the next day. She was evaluated and had no contraindications to vaccine administration based on the current Merck guidelines so the vaccine was given. The next day she had a case of shingles that I promptly assisted her with. She stated the rash developed after the vaccine but it looked as if the rash was present for a few days given the pattern of vessicle formation. She calls her son "an attorney, go figure" and then states she shouldn't have received the vaccine because she took a medrol dose pack 3 months prior! Once again, not a contraindication to vaccine administration but this forced me to spend time and resources fighting a woman from out of state that was looking for an easy payday and had the resources to push this forward. Needless to say, she and her attorney looked like fools and it never evolved into a full blown law suit but this is something that should have never occured in the 1st place. These are the types of issues and situations that drive up health care! I didn't kill her, I didn't precribe inappropriately, I followed the current guidelines and medical literature, I asked all the important pertinent questions, yet still had someone try to take me to the cleaners and destroy my reputation within the medical community. Medicine is not an exact science and mistakes occur on occasion. Take a look around, people die from just about anything and everything. I don't see any legislation in place requiring the government to pick up fallen tree branches from the forest floor because I'm assuming someone at some point has tripped while walking in the woods and died after hitting their head! It sounds stupid because it is. Hundreds of thousands of surgeries are performed yearly in this country and mistakes are going to happen that result in the death of a patient. Should you be held responsible, YES!!! I'm not saying that we shouldn't be liable for our mistakes....but maybe the individual and attorney who decides to sue a doctor over something rediculous and loses should be held liable and required to pay the physician or hospital. this would probably stop alot of the nonsense that goes on. Maybe neurosurgeons, OB/GYN's, general surgeons...will move back into areas where the medical climate is hostile with regard to malpractice premiums and lawsuit happy attorneys/patients if there was some liability on the other end. I do agree that the AMA has not been as politically active during the years when alot of this initial legislation was passed but there have been some strides toward the right direction for the medical community.
People have a hard time trusting physicians? If you feel that way and have what appears to be so little respect for those who dedicate their lives at the expense of their own to provide you the care you feel you deserve, then the next time you get sick take care of it yourself! Take out your own appendix, remove your own skin cancer with a butter knife, treat your MI by researching it on WebMD, cure your protate cancer with meditation and prayer.......Perhaps when your life or the life of one of your family members is on the line....the "few sympathies" you have for the medical profession and the disdain you show toward the income derived from a lifetime of hard work and caring for others comes back and slaps you in the face. I bet you change your mind and come to the agreement that the doctor who saved your life is worth the money they get paid to do it!
RAM MD
Choose the field which most interests you. Don't do it for the prestige or to inflate your ego( i.e. The GOD Complex). Karma will prevail in the end. I've been a DMD for 13 years and find it a very satisfying career. The battle between which career is most pretigous and monetarily superior is quite silly. Obviously, the MDs are at the top of the food chain but that does not mean they are more intelligent or superior( I get very tired of listening to MDs who think Dentists' chose dentistry because they could'nt make it into med school). I've witnessed this attitude during dental school and in the professional world. It's very childish and a true sign of insecurity. Before dental school, I was a US Naval Aviator and flew the A-6 Intruder( a carrier based bomber jet), therefore, I've dealt with this ego driven hierarchy before and find it immature.
Both professions provide very satisfying financial dividends. I initially wanted to become an MD,but fate led me down a different road(a long story). The first several years as a dentist I hated my profession because I was used to the "jet jock" mentality(i.e. being the top dog). I thought dentistry was boring and I was not living up to my full potential. The physicians in the clinic were the "jet jocks" and the dentists were the "helo" pilots. I finally broke this mental road block and learned how to be happy with my chosen profession. Self-realiztion and humility are the key. Dentistry provides me with financial and job stabilty along with a great deal of freedom, leisure time( 32h/wk),and job satisfaction. Even during this so-called poor economy my private practice is going strong. Follow the path which feels right, don't fight it, then do your utmost best and success will follow.
Dentistry is a great career. It offers freedom,job security,financial security,and a leisurely lifestyle. Job satisfaction is purely mental.Initially I thought being an MD would be more intectually rewarding, but now I'm very content with my career choice.Working 32 hours/wk allows me to have a life rather than work being my life. I net approximately 180k/year even when the economy is depressed. I'll be able to retire at age 55.Simply sell my practice for 800k to 1million and live off my retirement fund which should be another cool million by the time I'm ready to retire. The sky is always the limit.
public policy/MPA student:
first of all, you r way out of your league posting here. do you have any idea how hard we worked/ or are working to make sure people don't die as our patients? do you know what subjects we learn in prof. school and how difficult it is to master them? do u know how much we sacrificed to get here? when i was in undergrad, i studied the least out of most of my premed buddies, but about 5x that of the poli sci, fin, etc majors. i had to sacrifice so much fun while my business friends partied and got laid 5/6 times a week. btw, they are 22 yrs old right now and making six figs. so yea its not about JUST the money. it's about prestige, responsibility, and actually making a difference in this world, instead of than dealing with other people's money. so have deciding how much we get paid, its probably still more than what u make. Face it, u spend ur time studying and analyzing laws and policies, subject matter like economics, finance, all things that were made by man. We study how man was made. they don't call it intelligent design for no reason, but it just does not compare to that bullshit u spend ur time on. and sorry at least for MDs there is absolutely no time to deal with bullshit like politics. a guy with a C average at yale drove this country into the ground, and u think u sit there and bad mouth doctors?? i don't care if u have no sympathy for us, but i have no respect for you. but u will always have to respect us, or else who's gonna deliver your baby? whose gonna remove your cousin's tumor? damn right we get paid its cuz the answer is NO ONE!! i sit here in the library on a saturday night (midterms this monday), trying to master the material best i can so i can treat ungrateful people like u, along with the many grateful people. mistakes happen in medicine cuz we are human, not machines. the human body is so complex and varies between patients, no one can ever truly master it. except dr house. but hes pretend people. So don't knock something you know so little about. also, if u r stranded on an island, who would be the most important member of society? watch lost and u'll figure it out. MD are REQUIRED in this world we live in and we are entitled to every penny we make. i apologize for my combative tone, but u should realize that i am very arrogant. It keeps me motivated to study on a saturday night while the rest of the world relaxes. so y don't u, public policy/MPA student, sit this one out while the big boys talk?
dent vs doc salary: i almost don't even care about this anymore LOL. but my two cents are that dentists don't provide a service that is necessary. back to my island analogy: the WORST MD IN THE U.S. would still be more valuable than the BEST DDS. IN THE U.S. this is y we don't consider u real doctors, u guys fit into the PHD category.
But i think for what u do, u deserve to make a lot, and its a much more respectable career than [public policy/MPA student] will ever have.
but yea idk y the docs n dents careers are even compared. If you don't love what you do, u will not survive in medicine. what we deal with is serious business. people trust us with their lives, and we definitely live up to the highest ethical/moral code (on average) than any other profession.
to the MDs: obama is a great president so stop complaining that u'll lose an extra 40 grand a year... at least it won't go toward the killing of innocent iraqis... (over 100k dead ON RECORD)
Sounds like somebody doesn't understand doctors already do pay a huge amount of malpractice insurance. Sheesh... the guy above needs to get real. He makes it sound like he's actually giving doctors information they don't already have. And FYI, the socialization of medicine = the beginning of mediocre medicine.
I find all this salary talk very interesting. I am an orthopedic Physician Assistant trained from USC. I make 150k a year for fulfilling a PA program at USC for a total of 4 years without medical school or dental school. I am very happy with my decision.
i know for fact that every dentist in this world is a failed doctor project.and almost all of dentist would trade them career to be physicians.but never the other way.
I'm a 4th year dental student who is a little shocked by all the talk of dentists being people who could not get into medical school. I attend a university that has both dental and medical schools that place in the top 10 in the US, and for the last 4 years, the average accepted dental student gpa was higher than the average accepted med student gpa...in other words, we could have been md's if we had wanted to to, but the cream of the crop chose dentistry.
Another point that has been neglected in this thread is that yes some highly specialized medical professionals make vastly superior incomes compared to general dentists, but general dentists can at least enjoy their income before their kids go to highschool. I'll be 26 this summer after 4 years of undergrad (the exact same program for pre-med and pre-dental at my university), and 4 years of dental school...and I would be extremely dissapointed to only make $200,000 next year.
Lastly, for all of those that keep underwriting the importance of dentistry, you are poorly informed or you are simply lying here to justify some poor decisions you've made. Try to not sound bitter with some of your pettier arguments.
I really have to laugh at a lot of the comments that are posted here. It is realy hard to imagine that this bickering back and forth about whose profession makes more money or whose profession is more meaningful. This bickering is being done by people who society views as role models. Come on ... really ... it sounds a lot like a group of guys who are trying to prove who is more manly by tryign to compare their "manlyhood" or their toys, etc. Each of us go into our respective professions for various reasons whether it be for money, family life, prestige, the job itself, getting to save lives, etc. Really, who cares why one person goes into it. the only person you should worry about is your own reasons of going into a profession.
I once wanted to go to medical school with aspirations of being a surgeon. Then, I was introduced to the profession through friends. Although the job itself is extremely fascinating, the family lives of the surgeons I knew really lacked a lot. I chose to go into dentistry. I really didn't know anything about dentistry except they worked great hours, made a comfortable living and had a great family life. I ended up withdrawing from dental school in my second year because my heart wasn't in it. I really didn't have a passion for it. Ten years later, I looked at dentistry again. I am so thankful I did. This time around, I have found a passion for dentistry that I don't feel medicine would have given me. I LOVE working with my hands. I can create artwork for people and see gratification on the faces of my patients that I could only get if I were to go into plastic surgery in medicine. And the idea of working in a mouth, yeah, some people have bad breath and you just have to deal with that in dentistry. But, if you really think about medicine, there are so many things that are as bad that specialists have to deal with in my opinion. GI specialists who have to work with rectal exams all the time. OB/GYN who do women's health exams (not pleasant quite often). ER docs who deal with EVERYTHING bad. So, you can see, there are bad things that physicians deal with too. Some people are able to deal with certain body parts better than others.
My whole point of stating this is to show that the only thing that really counts is that you (and you alone) appreciate the job that you are doing. In the end, depending on the effort we put into our careers, we will all live a comfortable lifestyle - with some making more money than others. In the end, the amount of money you make really is only limited to how you choose to pursue your career, where you live (have your practice) and how you run your business. In the end, we all have the potential to make a lot of money, live a nice life. We just need to chose the career that best fits the lifestyle and career goals we want.
from Dentist-Chicago again!...:
1- if a guy collapses at a restaurant thing?! what will i do: i will set back , relax, chill and enjoy the scene!
i really don`t care whatsoever! yes, its all about the money, idiots(last time i checked i was living in the US of A, everything can be purchased).
2-the great cardiologist: what you quoted is simply your production: MD collection is hardly 60% of production, then your own percentage of that (as a 1st year associate, not owner) is 40-50% and minus your malpractice insurance , you will end up with much less than a beginner general dentist, very simple! another thing: 18 year old and even if we agreed on 5 years for the md and 7 for specialty and one more for work: 18+5+7+1= 31 going on your 32!! didn`t they teach you how to count at medical school?! you r at least 1-2 years off man! therefore, you r just a pathetic angry liar! but, i can`t blame you, practicing medicine these days is very stressful and very depressing, if you love it just do it , u don`t have to lie to others to justify ur life choices!
3-cleaning teeth (janitorial work) is done by a dental hygienist, mine gets 47 $/hour, which is close to what an internist makes, thats a 2-year education in dentistry. beats doing rectal exams by a pathetic internist, doesn`t it?!
4- this argument is just recent, why? because of the decline in medicine and the soaring malpractice premiums, and the growth of dentistry and the fact that their malpractice prem.s are basically a joke (a couple of a hundred dollars)! yes, it is an inferiority complexity, nevertheless, its that of MD.s not dentists.
5-the last guy-colleague was def. the funniest!
yes, i will have to admit that we DO have bigger Dic** , to summarize things for the pre-professional applicants: iam a very successful dentist (yes, more successful than most MD.s!) , i make a lot of money, drive a convertible mercedes, work less hours and F*** lots of chicks-more than most MD guys out there !
regards
Dentist-chicago (yes, same original @hole)
i am a dentist...4 years out of school...i bought a practice 2 years ago...my NET income for 2008 was $204,000...i work 3.5 days per week, which basically averages out to 28 hours/week...i pay $5,000/month for the loan i took to buy the practice, and i have an associate...if i didn't have a loan and an associate, my gross income would go up $160,000/year, which would basically mean my NET would go up to $315,000/year...i like having an associate because i don't have to work as many days, and i like this because i can spend time with my wife and 2 year old daughter...for the "failed medical school student" thing, well, i never had an interest in medicine...i chose dentistry because of the lifestyle...i don't think too many other professions allow a person to work so little yet make so much WITHOUT the life/death responsibility...bottom line: DO WHAT YOU LOVE...don't do anything for money or prestige...i LOVE dentistry...i wouldn't do anything else...life is too short not to do what you enjoy most!
Some of these comments are laughable. I have a 4.0 in biochemistry, and I'm going into dentistry. I could go to med school if I wanted, but I don't want to! Dentists don't provide a service that is necessary? Save lives? Hahaha! If it weren't for dentists, people would die every day from tooth-related issues (as they did centuries ago). Sounds like somebody has never heard of an oral surgeon either? They save entire faces for trauma victims! And yes, they are dentists!
Yeesh, that guy who says dentists don't provide a necessary service must be on something.
of course the dental students' GPA would be higher that's because there subjects are much more EASIER compared to Medical students. You guys only study the oral cavity, medical students study the whole body which makes it more difficult.
That's why med students are given more respect. And yeah, a dentist can never say "I'm a doctor" or else, if there's an emergency, people would start asking him on what he can do for the patient. Better yet introduce himself as "I'm a dentist"
"of course the dental students' GPA would be higher that's because there subjects are much more EASIER compared to Medical students. You guys only study the oral cavity, medical students study the whole body which makes it more difficult.
That's why med students are given more respect. And yeah, a dentist can never say "I'm a doctor" or else, if there's an emergency, people would start asking him on what he can do for the patient. Better yet introduce himself as "I'm a dentist"
^ to this post..sad. You obviously aren't a med OR dental student. Before you make comments like this, go get a bachelor's degree, and get into grad school.
Btw, I'm glad people who love money choose dentistry over medicine because I wouldn't want someone so money hungry (like me) be responsible for my life.
Also, dentist > medicine when salary is considered. Yes, specializing in medicine makes big $$ but you'll be 35 and old. Me on the other hand, am 21 and will graduate at 25 with a starting salary of $120k. Potentially netting $500k/year by the time I reach 30.
-dental student
To Dr. R MD
interventional cardiologist at age 30? Getting an MD in 5 years after high school? You retard. I can bet that you aren't even in college. Before bs-ing about getting an MD, research how long it really takes.
wow...I came to this site because I have a friend who wants to go to medical school. I encouraged him to consider dental school if he didnt know what kind of doctor he wanted to be..... I a dentist (graduated 1 yr ago) and my twin is an MD. We both are doctors..(physician is the technical name for an MD and dentist is that of a DDS/DMD. Attorneys, Professors, and other professionals are also 'doctors' or highly trained specialists in thier fields. Just because a term can be used loosely and in a "layman" manner doesnt mean the actual definition changes)
Anyway, I wanted to be a physician (did premed preparations my 1st year in college ) and my sister wanted to be a dentist (imagine that) but we changed our minds due to personal preferences. I could have excelled in medicine, but I chose to excel in dentistry. Once I realized that I could spend 4 years in medical school and not be the one kind of physician I thought I wanted to be (general surgeon, I changed my mind. I want to have kids soon, so starting a career (regardless of WHAT it was) in my mid 30's wasnt cutting it at all.....
I knew I wanted to provide health care, so when a friend suggested dentistry to me, although I wasnt interested at the time, I did research.....Once I did I was SOOOO excited!! Dentistry is so much fun, interesting, and so much more involved than I realized. I NEVER looked back....
Dentistry is much more than drilling on teeth, its actually health care, and we do so much for our communities.
As for the comment and example of "if someone yelled I need a doctor" in a crowd, that was ignorant...just b/c a person has a MD it makes them on the spot life savers? I would rather have a paramedic (M.D's actually have specialties, and if I were having a heart attack , I would find a phsychiatrist and a dentist equally helpful.)...until I went to the hospital, of course......But I wouldnt go to a neurologist's office for a toothache either
You could not PAY ME enough to be an MD. For my life, its not worth it and I LOOOOVVVE what I do:). I'm glad there are physicians who love what they do (I'd be really uncomfortable when I went to "the doctor" if there weren't!!)
It sounds really petty that someone would choose not to give me "respect" because I have a DDS!
But also irrelevant, because my patients do....
Yes, money has been a consideration, but more people want to "be a doctor" because thats such a larger umbrella (surgeons, dermatology, anesthesiology, pshych, peds, ortho peds.......)
Also, If I were a cardiologist (with all of that training, ups and downs and conditioning to the lifestyle) Im sure I wouldnt want to do dentistry.....I respect that, but am confused (and amused) that there are immature people who have peoples "lives in their hands" who have to feel validated by assuming dentists want to be them....... I think those are the people who did medicine for the money and are extremely jealous that they could have chosen something more lucrative. Im so sorry for you.
Medicine vs Dentistry isnt about smart vs smartest, either
I also who did not do well on his MCAT and pursued medicine anyway (he has a DO instead of an MD)But he just matched at Johns Hopkins for anesthesiology! Why? not because he was the smartest but b/c he pursued his dreams and believed in himself...If you want to be a dentist DO IT(for the right reasons) and you will never regret it. If you want to be an MD/DO, then DO IT (for the right reasons) and you will never regret it.........
But most importantly, noone will ever take it away from u!!!!
Somebody obviously hasn't been to dental school. I can't count how many oral surgeons who have told me after going through medical school that it was the easier of the two.
"Somebody obviously hasn't been to dental school. I can't count how many oral surgeons who have told me after going through medical school that it was the easier of the two."
You're forgetting that oral surgeons go through med school AFTER having done dental school and a lot of the material is similar. So of course med school would seem to be the easier of the two when it's done second.
People who/ve written comments about MD vs DDS, you have to know the other side a bit better before making such statements as ' dentist is a janitor of mouth, dentists don't provide necessary service....'. A few years ago, a chicago boy died of uncontrolled infection from a canine tooth. Whgen the news broke, TIMES mentioned 'where was his dentist?'
Although some of recent dentists get trained on internal medicine during residencies, ther is no way they could know about internal med as much as MD's do. But do MD's know as much about mouth as dentists? SOme MD's think dentists use brute force to pull teeth or fill them etc.. The point is MD's don't know much about dentistry and oversimplify it. MD's out there, do you know what some of highly trained dentists cal you? Pil dispenser, prescription writer... Dentists don't know much about medical fields either but we are bitching about each other based on puny info we have about each other. The med student who's studying on saturday night, no matter how much dedication, devotion whatever you have to medical field, you will never learn about how to make a diagnosis of periodontitis, irreversible pulpitis..etc just as dentists can't make a diagnosis of meningitis. We have to help each other instead of bashing each other. That med student especially sounded very combative and angry. I promise you one thing. You keep up with that kind of attitude, you won't advance whatever you are in. I've been to both med and dental schools to become oral surgeon and I probably studied way more years and way more experiences you have. In the end, MD's and DDS's have to work together as research prove more and more of co relations between oral conditions and systemic condtions. If you are a dentist with identical attitude, thrw it out. W ehve to work together.
For the person who chose to say that it is harder to get into Dental School than Medical School you are definitely mistaken. The average GPA to get into Medical School is 3.55 while the average GPA for acceptance to Dental School is 3.45. Also as we all know the MCAT is much more difficult than the DAT.
Wow. People can be competitive and cruel. One person's joy is different from the next so there is no reason to say one is better than another because it is all relevant.
As for me I am happy with what I do. I am a pediatric dentist working with low income families. Yes, I am still making a very good living, but I am also helping children in need. I love working with teeth and educating children. I also look forward to being a Mom that doesn't have to work full-time.
As for the DDS undergrad program differing from MD it also depends on what you chose. My Bachelor degree is in Biochemistry.
Wow I came onto this site hoping to be informed, but instead I ended up reading a petty battle between doctors and dentists. As someone who is working to pursue a career in health and respect both dentists and physicians(since they are BOTH essential services that EVERYONE I know have had to use), I am disgusted by the character behind the people that hold such positions. As role models in society, and ones I aspire to be, you should be better people than to be putting other people's careers down. For MDs, if saving lives is so important to you than shouldn't you be valuing the people you save instead of scoffing at others and boasting about your abilities. For the dentists that are saying money is everything, well money is important obviously, but it isn't going to substitute for many things such as a happy relationship with the people you care about.
And for the post that said everyone would rather be stuck on an island with a doctor... that's just being pretentious. Doctors and dentsits are important in society but they are part of a network in which they too rely on and cannot survive without. Personally I'd rather be stuck with someone that can provide me with food or teach me survival skills.
MD's can make much more money than the average dentist depending on the specialty, environment, and how well the unit is run. My dad is a neonatologist and raked in over 800k before. He does work long hours, but there are other fields of medicine that can make just as much if not more money with better working hours. Not only does my dad make more money than the average dentist, he also gets to save the lives of newborns and many of the patients visit our house even after years my dad helped them. So basically MD's get the money(if done right), the prestige, and get to be called DOCTOR.
"MD's can make much more money than the average dentist"
You're forgetting that dentists and dental specialists (ortho, surgery, perio, endo) can make much more than the average doctor as well. Yes, even $800k+.
"So basically MD's get the money(if done right), the prestige, and get to be called DOCTOR."
I would bet a neonatologist is called doctor about as often as a dentist or dental specialist is called doctor.
I am a junior in college, and I have always wanted to pursue medicine because of the prestige, money, and ability to help my patients lead a healthy lifestyle. I've done everything necessary in order to become competitive in the medical school application process --3.8 GPA, research, volunteer work, leadership, and TAing.
All that remains is the MCAT, which I will start studying for after I finish research this summer. Basically, I hold a very high chance of being accepted to medical school --that is, if I choose to become a physician.
However, dentistry is something that has always been in the back of my mind, and I came here looking to see if the salaries were comparable (I've always wanted to go into Family Medicine, which isn't very lucrative as it is, but what I'm interested in, nonetheless).
The comments that I have read from the physicians here (which I actually hope are freshmen, undergraduate pre-med gunners who are looking to get a head-start on bragging about their future (I use this term loosely here) professions) have been disgusting. It has actually made me want to seriously consider studying for the DAT.
Comments referring to dentists as "oral janitors" and people who failed to be accepted into medical school are ridiculous. I would NEVER refer to my dentist that way; in fact, I have always held his profession in very high esteem.
There are so many advantages and disadvantages to each profession, and, in reality, physicians do gain more prestige than dentists; but for physicians to demean and ridicule the work and value of dentists in such a manner is disgusting. I would never want any of you to be my physician.
Good luck to everyone. As a word of advice, choose your profession, and choose it wisely as it is an investment of both time and money. As for me, I'm off to do more research on dentistry.
Well if saving lives is so much important, why not do it free??
Why brag about how much you made after you told a lil girl that her mom was going to be ok??!
Why spend so many hours a week (or more) to make lil more than a dentist who makes a lil less working WAYYY lesser than the hard-working MDs?
In the end, its all about the $$$. accept it.
dentists may earn a lil lesser, but they dont have to struggle thro 8-hour(on an average) surgeries for it.
Doctors make much more on average. Dentists have done well the last few years with all the cosmetic crap they all have been cashing in on, but the bottom fell out of that market with the economy, some say permanently, and a lot are overleveraged with expensive equipment (like Dermatologists, Plastic Surgeons, Cornea Surgeons, etc)
All of these surveys and blogs talk about primary care salaries, but the simple fact is most MDs in lucrative fields like Ortho, Derm, ENT, Oncology, GI, Cardiology, Radiology, Neurosurgery, Anesthesia, etc still make HIGH six figure, if not seven figure, salaries.
I know a dozen Rad Oncs in my region, and each makes over a million per year
A few dental specialists in Oral Surgery and Orhtodontics do well, but they're the top 1% of their class usually.
The top grossing docs still make more
I'm friends with a lot of dentists and none of them "like" their job, they just talk about the money.
I love my career as an MD and have a great lifestyle and make way more than almost any dentist, and guarantee I get much more satisfaction from the lifesaving care I give patients every single day
I'd chose medicine over dentistry in a heartbeat
I'd rather go to Wall Street than be a dentist or podiatrist or chiropractor-- if it's just about money and lifestyle, be in finance....
For the record, I'm an MD (specialist) and I work 4 days a week, about 9-4 to 9-6, and take minimal call, maybe 5-6 weekends a year which are a breeze. I will make a minimum of 700K US this year, and that is after all the awful Medicare cuts my specialty took a few years ago. I used to clear 800-1.1 mil/year easy.
Being an MD is WAY more lucrative than we let on-- we always lie about our incomes in all those surveys, so people don't resent us and get wind of what we really make
Most dentists I've known brag about their money constantly, because that's all they really have. THey hate their jobs and get little fulfillment.
I touch peoples lives in amazing ways each and every day, and have saved thousands of lives in my young career. I have a sense of accomplishment and satisfaction every day when I come home that no dentist will experience once on their best day.
There's really no comparison to what a dentist does, or even what they make, compared to one of the "elite" specialties in medicine-- we still have the most lucrative, prestigious, and fulfilling jobs out there in my opinion
"most MDs in lucrative fields like Ortho, Derm, ENT, Oncology, GI, Cardiology, Radiology, Neurosurgery, Anesthesia, etc still make HIGH six figure, if not seven figure, salaries."
So you're telling me that the *AVERAGE* salary for ortho, derm, ent, oncology, GI, cardiology, radiology, neurosurgery, anesthesia, etc. is $700k-$1m+? How did you get your MD again? Are you really this stupid?
"A few dental specialists in Oral Surgery and Orhtodontics do well, but they're the top 1% of their class usually."
Uhh... you're off by a factor of 10. Plus, 20% of all dentists are specialists.
"I'm friends with a lot of dentists and none of them "like" their job, they just talk about the money."
Huh, not one of them right? *Bullsh** detector*
"Being an MD is WAY more lucrative than we let on-- we always lie about our incomes in all those surveys, so people don't resent us and get wind of what we really make
Most dentists I've known brag about their money constantly, because that's all they really have. THey hate their jobs and get little fulfillment."
Wow, what a bunch of B.S. Polar opposites those dentists and doctors, aren't they? If doctors lie about their incomes, then how come they are all bragging about their incomes on the dentist page? Sounds to me like somebody needs to make up bullsh** to make themselves more comfortable about their career decision.
And most dentists I have met are very satisfied with their careers. They are helping people and fixing all kinds of problems. And they work much less than most doctors, which means they are spending their free time doing other rewarding things.
I came across this data ranking a little while ago that breaks down how much medical and dental specialists are paid on an hourly basis. Not sure how accurate it is, but all of the data is extracted straight from the AMA and ADA salary surveys in 2003 (I think it is 2001 salary data). It seems like dentists are doing very well - #1, #2, #3, #4, #6, #9, and #13.
Salary/Hours
1. Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon 336/36 = $179.5/hr
2. Endodontist 303.9/36 = $162.4/hr
3. Pedodontiac Dentist 294.4/36 = $157.1/hr
4. Orthodontist 279.4/36 = $149.0/hr
5. Orthopedic Surgeon 335.8/54.1 = $119.4/hr
6. Periodontist 216.4/36 = $115.4/hr
7. Pathologist 246.5/41.6 = $114.0/hr
8. Rad (Diag)/Rad Onc 327.7/58.5 = $107.7/hr
9. Prosthodontist 190.9/36 = $102.0/hr
10. Opthalomologist 229.2/43.7 = $100.9/hr
11. Dermatologist 219.5/42 = $100.5/hr
12. EM 220/45 = $94.0/hr
13. General Dentist 173.1/36 = $92.4/hr
14. Neurosurgery / Plastic Surgery 275.2/59.6 = $88.8/hr
15. Urologist 264.5/57.4 = $88.6/hr
16. Surgeon (gen) 263.7/58.2 = $87.1/hr
17. Anesthesiologist 244.7/58.7 = $80.2/hr
18. ENT 214.5/52.1 = $79.2/hr
19. OB/GYN 227/55.7 = $78.4/hr
20. Neurologist 183.1/53.7 = $65.6/hr
21. Psychiatrist 145.7/44 = $63.7/hr
22. IM 164.1/55.6 = $56.8/hr
23. FP 146.5/50.7 = $55.6/hr
24. Pediatrician 137.8/49.4 = $53.6/hr
http://www.ada.org/ada/prod/survey/publications_newreports.asp#income
Survey of Dental Practice. c. 2003 Edition, American Dental Association
http://medicine.wustl.edu/~residenc...pec/byspec.html
Physician Socioeconomic Statistics. c. 2003 Edition, American Medical Association
I am an anesthesiologist/pain specialist, and I bow to the dentists. They certainly have a great lifestyle and almost no liability. If I had to study all over again, I would have gone the dental route and subspecialized in orthodontics. I wish some dentist/orthodontist would have guided me.
Out of curiosity, why is it that there isn't a glut of dentists if the field is so good, in terms of lifestyle and money. How come insurance seems to pay dentists so well but not the doctors. I can never understand that. How come patients will pay mega$$$ for their dentists but gripe over a $5 copay to their MD/DO?
The reason there are not an overwhelming number of dentists out there is because of multiple reason. 1. There are fewer dental schools than there were 30 years ago. 2. Up until recent years, there were fewer students in classes than there use to be. 3. Because the baby boomers are retiring, there are more people retiring yearly than dentists are graduating. So, actually, every year, the ratio of patients to dentists increases yearly because of this problem. In addition, the US population continues to increase. These factors make it almost impossible for there to be a gluttony of dentists nationwide.
Now, there are locations in the nation (usually near a dental school) where there is an overabundance of dentists. But, in many other area of the country, there aren't any dentists.
Until we open more dental schools, there will never be too many dentists.
FYI, they are opening for dental schools. I know that Western University, a DO med school in S. CAL, is opening a dental school. UNLV opened a dental school for Vegas several years ago. (I'm pre-dental at UCLA). In any case, I am glad we are opening more schools to fulfill the needs of the US baby boomers, who will be needing crowns, implants, and $$$ (better than a slot machine). I'm glad I found your site b/c I would never want to be a "medical doctor" and make $ when I can be a dentist working 30 hrs a week and make $$$. I'm probably going to specialize in orthodontics or endodontics. Oral surgery is the ultimate $$$ maker. I hear some can pull in $1 million easy but its more training than I want. Dental Medicine rule!
To the guy stating that hes an interventional cardiologist at age 30, this website gives a pretty accurate estimate of time spent on education and training.you shouldve looked it up before you posted a comment.Dont worry,its ok that you lied.i understand that you just dont have any ambitions to become something you admire. if i worked at taco bell or washed car windows at a gas station and viewed the salaries posted by people i would be insecure to. tell you what though, I am a general dentist as well. If you get your diploma and go to a vocational school to become a RDA maybe.... just maybe i can see about a job for you....Not. But i heard weindex is a streak free glass cleaner for windows lol. i feel just as pathetic as you are now that i realised that im wasting my time writing this.
"What an idiot, what a loser....good good more for us"
- Will Ferral, Wedding Crashers
Whats not gratifying about
A) Having your own successful business
B) Putting a nice smile on someone's face
C) Giving them a service that they want and are happy to pay for
D) Having free time to pursue your other interests.
I have two cousins, one is an internist, other an orthodontist. Internist makes a good amount more money than the orthodontist (750k to 500k) but the orthodontist works 5 days a week, no calls, home on weekends, works out 4-6 days a week, watches movies, plays golf, loves being a Democrat, so on and so forth. The internist works.
With that said, both are satisfied and love their jobs.
I am an accountant making 50k..now thats not satisfying in any angle.
Wow! I am ashamed of many of the comments made by both dentists and physicians. How unbecoming of health professionals. My dad always hoped I would become a physician. He has soooo much respect for "doctors". I too had a general awe of the elite just because they were "doctors". However, now that I know many of them personally (both dds and md), I realized that they are just like every average Joe, some get drunk after finals, some make rude comments about patients' body parts, one knocked up a local stripper. And others were wonderful, ethical people. What I learned was that the title "doctor" doesnt mean "perfect". As demonstrated by many on this thread, "doctors" are just like everyone else--some are insecure, greedy, materialistic, promiscuous, and others are saints. I used to completely trust "doctors". Now that I am one, I am careful with whom I allow to do a physical exam on my own daughter. "Doctor" does not equal "moral" or "compassionate". I have lost the awe I once had for those members of the profession.
I am currently a dentist. In undergrad, I had a 3.89GPA and was president of Alpha Epsilon Delta, (pre-med honor society) and I was on my way to medical school when I decided to do a little more "field research". I volunteered during my summer vacation in an emergency room and was right in the thick of it. I went home everyday emotionally drained from the pain and suffering I saw everyday. I was not impressed with the doctors who treated and referred to symptoms, and never knew the patient by name. I understand that they have to be emotionally separated in order to deal with what they do for a living, but I was not about to turn into one of those. I am grateful for physicians and those who deal with life and death on a daily basis, but I would rather have more peace of mind. I decided to go to dental school because of the wonderful influence my dentist had on me. I saw him for braces regularly and he got to know me and my family, and refered to me by name, and not by my malocllusion. He is the reason I smiled more as a teen and got my confidence. I have been a dentist for about 11 years now, and I have created thousands of beautiful smiles. I absolutely love what I do and would do it for half or less of what I make now (which is 550K, after overhead, but before taxes, I work 30 hours a week, and take 3 weeks of vacation a year, and multiple 4-day weekends) I love my job, and I have time for my 4 young children.
To those considering dental or medical school, make sure you research aspects other than just the money. Not everyone is cut out to be a dentist or an MD. You have to love what you do, or you will be miserable, and no amount of money will cure that. Becoming a "doctor" for the money or prestige alone will be doing yourself and your patients a disservice.
Ha, my brother-in-law is a dentist and rakes it in. Dentists get great reimbursement, and are allowed to balance bill, whereas I (a surgical subspecialist working in an academic center) get stuck with what the insurance companies pay me. Yes, I make less than my brother-in-law. No, I wouldn't trade professions.
I could learn to do what he does in a matter of months (his own words). My surgeries take years of training to do, and very few people can do what I do. I get to teach other doctors how to perform surgery, I save countless lives a year, and I get to challenge myself intellectually to stay abreast of the newest and latest cancer research. Dentists get to go to cosmetic seminars.
I respect his career choices as financially they clearly made more sense. He obviously provides a valuable service to his community that someone needs to do. He even "takes call" in his own special way, being available by cell phone. I know, weird. He doesn't want to pay for an answering service.
But you know where he sends his pus-filled periapical abscesses with the odontogenic neck infections? Yep, to a doctor at the local ER. And yes, at our institution, it's the head and neck surgeons who pull the teeth out and drain the neck infections, because it's beyond the capabilities of most dentists. We unfortunately don't have any oral maxillofacial surgeons at our academic center. We can't convince them it's lucrative enough!
Bottom line, in my opinion, often it's money that drives dentistry, and it's ego that drives medicine (surgery, in my case). I have a big ego. My brother-in-law has a big bank account.
after reading all these comments, comparing salaries between a dental surgeon and a physician..people have compared apples to oranges.
First of all-compare a general dentist to a general physician and a specialist to a specialist. Some one has compared a cardiologist salary to a general dentists!how about comparing an orthodontists salary to a cardiologists, that would be right.obviously any specialist will make more then a generalist-regardless of the profession.
And as per choices-my mom and dad are MDs and they advised me to look into dentistry. My mom had to cut back on working hours after me and my sister were born and eventually after 10 years she hardly works because its impossible for her to manage home. Eventually my dad ended up working 70 hours a week and my mom working 30 hrs alternate weeks!
I am in 4th year in dental school and I have 12 hours working days, 6 days week.I intend to specialize and yes! i will make as much or more then my dad makes after specialization and at least 6 times as much as my mom makes working 4 days a week and look after my husband and kids just as well!
I wud suggest listen to ur heart ....I love being a dental student.And contrary to popular belief dental school is so much work but if u enjoy and look forward to anything that u do..that wudnt matter.
As a patient, I have a lot more respect for the doctors than the dentist. I don't consider dentists and medical doctors are the same "doc".... Dentists are all money hungry and they are less medically knowledgeable than a doctor. I have 2 root canals, 2 crowns, and 10 veneers on altogether 12 teeth. All these work were done by different dentists and don't like anyone of them and find myself to be just putting up with them. I however like my primary care and I feel I can trust him (not the dentist). He begged me not to do veneers when I casually mentioned it to him years ago... Turned out to be he is right. All the dentists are so very eager to sell products and procedures that are unncessary. They should be more regulated and managed the way they charge and the way they sell their procedures. One thing in my life I regreted very much is to have 10 veneers that my long time primary care begged me never to have. Sigh...don't like dentists!!!
Dental school is easier to get in than Medical Schools... and this is the truth. I had college friends who couldn't get to medical schools (none of them they applied) but were able to get into dental school!!!
Of course as a retrospect, they were lucky out, turned out dentists make good money with less stress and sweat!!! Dentists to me are just people who like to drill on my teeth and who had no regard to my well-being, and if they can drill to make money, they want to drill and they love to drill. All these dentists I have who work on my teeth, I hate all of them!!
As for my medical problems like my cyst, acne, my acid reflux, my food poisioning, my 10 stitches on a forehead wood due to a freak accident, (which is now invisible, great suturing technique) etc. etc...were treated and cured so great I had no complain and no recurring problems.
Things with my teeth aren't this way.... with all these dentists, I still have recurring problems with my crowns, and my 10 veneers!! They cause so much mental, physical and financial stress in my life.
I hate dentists... my life would be so much better if only I listened to my primary care to never do the 10 veneers like the damn dentist told me.
I feel like I wanted to sue all these dentists now and you have no idea all these dental problems I have.
However, I have to say, I love my oral surgeon who took out my impacted molar. All dentists (other than the oral surgeon) are just drill man , they shouldn't be called doctors. They are out there to drill on people's teeth, (necessary or not ) to make money, not to care about the patients well-being.
A lot of medical doctors I have, the ones who treated my medical problems all have the passion to cure the disease and they seem to enjoy the satisfaction to help me get well.
But dentists, they didn't care, they even charged me for mistakes they made that they needed to rework on! I want more regulations on these damn dentists!!!!
Can't complain enough about them!
A dentist said somebody could learn what he does in a couple months? LOL. He must really be stupid or a bad dentist. I know dentists who have been practicing YEARS and still can't do certain procedures.
As a health care provider there appears to be alot of wanna-be commenters here that really have no clue what it takes to take care of a patient whether it is a dental or medical patient. Nor have these individuals gone through the rigorous medical ad dental training to be a dental surgeon or physician. The majority of the differences in the topic at hand lies in lifestyle. If you are an Oral Surgeon or say an Orthopedic surgeon you have to do your added time to learn your skills longer which you would command a higher salary. The dentist without added specialization would be very similar to a family practioner in terms of salary and less demanding schedules although with lower salaries. It is a simple as that. This is not complicated. Lets keep these ridiculous comments to a minimum.
First off to the guy that claims he is a interventional cardiologist. Are you kidding me ? You did 7 years of residency and fellow and you just turned 30. So you started med school at 19 ? hahahaa PLEASE !
Secondly I am a nobody, I will be attending medical school next year and HOPEFULLY I have the courage and brains to make it through.
I think that both MD and DDS deserve what they earn because of the type of work and effort they have put in there whole lives. It saddens me though to see that most respectable professionals are bashing each other on whose job is better or who makes more money. I think each case varies. Ultimately you are doing what you like and whatever gets you thru the day.
I hope I will be as lucky as many of you to make 6 figs and so I can take care of my parents. Anyways good luck to all of you.
Dentists are like car salesmen, they up sell there products and you can't trust them.
Also, just wait till the "dentist" get appendicitis and we'll see whose work is more "prestigious".
I am sure half of those self claim dentists are breathing in Nitrous Oxide and writing on this blog at the same time. LOSER, the only thing they know how to prescribe are pain killers and antibiotics. THERE ARE MORE MEDICINES out there you know ?!?!! perhaps not cause you majored in the smallest body part.
I've been a dentist in Canada for 4 years, I never had any desire to enter medicine. The best comment I have read on this blog was from the oral surgeon who emphasized the importance of both medicine and dentistry to the overall health of the patient.
I do very well even though I don't own my own practice yet - thanks to my real estate investments and such I'll be a millionaire by 30 (even after paying off my large student loan).
I can not comment on how much primary care doctors make in my area but I know they do work hard for their money. They deserve it!
I actually think they should/deserve to make at least as much as me if not a bit more - when we first graduate. Where we go from there is based on each individuals business skills. I'm not sure when all this hate between the two professions started but seems to me it is based purely on egos.
One of the problems is that to satisfy these egos, we forget to take care of the patient first and focus only on our paychecks. Medical doctors are pushing patients through the door as fast as they can so they can move on to the next - just so they can bill out that extra exam fee.
Dentists are just as guilty - pushing cosmetics and elective procedures when their first priority is the care of the patient.
I think there are good and bad in each profession, I have experienced working with a few unethical dentists in my time. And I'm sure the same goes for doctors.
Bottom line is both professions are great financially.
We need to stop worrying about the money and take good care of these people that are trusting us with their health!
why all the bashing about not being possible to be intervention cardiologist at 30?
from canada, my brother is a intervention cardiologist and did 2 years fellowhip at Harvard. he started med school at the age of 18(we did have a different requirements system here, if you have the grade). so it is entirely possible to be <30 and be a fellow intervention cardiologist. 18 + 4 year md school +5 years speciality + 2 year fellow = 29.
sis got her MD at 22. i got my OD at 21. 500K on 18h/week, 8 month/year. All my friends are MDs,DDS,DC, and etc and got their Doctors degree at 22-24 years old. most of them net min 250k and up. Most totally deserve it for: hard work / responsibility/ guts/ business wise.
stop bashing about $. if you are really good in what you are doing, and love doing it, creative enough, hard work and lucky enough, the financial rewards will come, even if you are selling hot dog.
Dentists or MDs or anything else are just businesses if you are talking only about money. you all have to be good business wise if you want to make more money than the average. And in general, the dentists i know somehow are quite savy business wise (a little more flashy too).
DDS money now is in cosmetics procedures.
what is wrong with all of you? are all of you that insecure that you need to flaunt your money and lifestyles on the internet? I am a pre-med college student and have realized, through my interactions with doctors and and fellow students, that 90% of you got into your professions because you are malcontents.
You don't want anyone else telling you what to do. you want to be at the pinnacle of society.
I may never be good enough to become a doctor but at least I know that I wanted to get into the profession for myself. forget this BS about money and saving people - you can save someone as a fireman, so why didnt do that. Whatever it is that you do, do for yourself - other people's opinions should not affect you.
Hello
I am a student in Romania in Dental School( I make here 6 years in dental school) and I am interested in coming in usa( where I have to make another 2 yers to equivalate this 6 years). Soo totaly 8 years while in usa there are only 4 years.
Does anybody know if I can transfer from my university to a university in Chicago in the 6 year?
Thank you very much.If you have any information I will apreciate.
"what is wrong with all of you? are all of you that insecure that you need to flaunt your money and lifestyles on the internet?"
whooo. stop. don't lie to yourself. if you are reading this blog it is because you want to know the different incomes relative to working conditions. if you really want to help people, there are millions of other ways than becoming a "doctor". i thought this blog is for salary?!
most people that you read that "flaunt" their money and lifestyles here would not normally say anything to anyone...
a lot of students i know always say the same B.S. to get in, but once in, they become show off and buy BMW even before completing their degrees. at least be true to your self than you can be happy in the very demanding medical / dental profession.
you just not only want to help people, or get a career... it is still a job, and some choose to make more, some less. i know a lot of DDS and MD making 60k/ year and others making 500k / year. it is their choice where / how they choose to work. it is a liberal profession / business so success is relative and it is up to them to define it ($ / happiness / recognition etc...)
do not choose the medical / dental field only for the money, there are better jobs out there with better lifestyles and money.but don't lie that money is not something you don't consider and that is why you are here...
and yes, i put the previous post.
In terms of income, the difference between a general dentist and a family physician is pretty similar, with the dentist making slightly more. Prestige-wise, physicans get more respect. However, a person selecting a career should look beyond the income and prestige and should base their decision on what they enjoy doing.